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Author Topic: Defining Terrorism  (Read 1707 times)
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The Statutory Ape
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2006, 09:19:24 AM »

I have been thinking along a very different line.

Let's analysis in a cold, calm, logical way, unperturbed by the loss of human lives first.

What is a terrorist organisation and what is a territorist?

A terrorist organisation is, stripped down to barebone essential, an organisation of people who use force against the state to acheive their political goals, and a terrorist is a member of such an organisation.

Now if this group of people, usually a very very small minority, use force to get their way over what is usually irreconciliable difference with the state, is it possibly that they be required to attack or fight only the regimental forces of the state, even if they wanted to?

Can anyone imagine the outcome if they were only to attack the police, the army, the navy - the armed forces?  Their chances of success will be very dismal and they are likely to be hunted down and locked away in no time at all.

Such a small group of people, to have any chance of success at all against the state, have to resort to a heavy element of surprise and attack where it is most vulnerable - usually the civilians.

Therefore subject to their relative strength vis a vise the state, it is a corollary imperative that "terrorists" do attack civilians.

Labelling them as "territorists" is no more than telling a scorpion that it is wrong to sting and therefore it must be punished for it when the sting is the only offence and defence mechanism it has. 

The labelling also shows how our language has been clobbered and raped to satisfy the goals of the authority.  For to criminalise the sting is merely (and this relates to Art's point) adding more draconian penalties to the charges of which a "terrorist" will have been charged anyway under the legal system, such as manslaughter, murder, destruction of property etc. 

Such criminalisation also deflects from our consideration the demands of the "terrorists" and whether there is any merits in their  demands.  Another testimony to the fact that the state has the monopoly of force.

Whether or not their case has merit is rather subjective.  They may very well consider their case to have merit and the authorities may think that their case is bunk.  If their case has merit then they are supposed to be able to take it before the authorities to be dealt with.  If the authorities wont deal with it then they have the option of political campaigning.  If neither of these things gets them very far then I'd have to say that regardless of what ever merit their cause has no one who matters in their judgement will agree with them.

It's generally considered unethical to kill people except for the purpose of self preservation when ones life is in direct threat by said people.  I think that a terrorist would have a hard time making anyone believe that he was holding off emenant threat to his life by blowing up several civilians regardless of the merit of his case either.

As far as adding the 'charge of terrorism' goes I don't see the problem with it.  The punishment should fit the crime.  It's one thing to do something illegal in the heat of the moment or just because it 'sounded like a good idea at the time'.  It's something else entirely to commit a crime because you genuinely think that it is a viable means of political change, meaning that more than likely you will continue even after arrest so a heavier punishment may serve to better deter you.  They do the same thing with any form of organized crime.
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The Smoking Man
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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2006, 11:07:57 AM »

Terrorism doesn't really exist as defiend by the USA.

In the case of Lebanon, Hamas/Hizbola is defined as a 'Terrorist Organization'.

Yet since being legitimized by a state election, they have killed less of the civillian population in Israel than the other way around.

Hizbolla has targetted military units, reserves, tanks and equipment of war while Israel has targetted housing blocks, hospitals, ambulances and cars waving white flags (not to mention infrastructure).

So what is terrorism?

In the constitution of the USA they guaranteed the rights of the 'fifth estate' ... the media and gave the people the right to overthow a government 'perverted' from the constitution by armed force if necessary. They guaranteed free speech. Yet all of this has been taken and phone records from newspapers, free speech 'zones' and the right to armed revolt have all been taken or instituted.

'Legitimate states' are either trying despots they put in power through the use of the Geneva Conventions or attempting to get the Geneva Conventions waved or local laws changed/put in place that contradict the conventions and they are asking for suspension of the conventions.

So, in point of fact, I would say that terrorism is the act of any individual or state to suspend use of the geneva conventions in attacking a civillian target intentionally or by deliberately not taking into account losses to civilian populations due to 'collateral damage'.

Terrorism IS Dresden, Coventry, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tyre, Qana, Nanjing, Harbin, Shanghai ... and it also includes London, and anyone who slips on a suicide vest and walks into a schoolyard, subway and not onto a military base.

A terrorist IS Timothy McVeigh, Israel, the USA, Japan, The UK, Germany, the IRA, Hizbola and a whole host of others.

So how can Hizbolla be both terrorist and non-terrorist??? Terrorism is an action taken in context and not an organization per se.

In America, they are fond of distancing themselves from the military personel in their presence who commit murder. They call them murderers.

If Hizbolla has people who fight on a battlefield and also people who wear suicide vests, don't they have soldiers and murderers in their midst too.

The allies did not execute all Japanese or all Germans after the second world war for actions as 'terrorists' or crimes against humanity. They executed the guilty ... those who we can safely say are 'Terrorists'.

Terrorism is NOT a group of individuals taken on a battlefield in a country you have invaded when they are defending their sovereign land (Guantanamo population for example). Especially people you have previously trained and armed to repel anothr world power, the USSR.

How did they know if they found an Al Qieda training camp for example???

They looked for and found CIA and US Army training manuals.

So, what is a terrorist?
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